Welcome, Lana Dingwall! Thank you for coming on to ChainChat with Diversity in Blockchain, I’m Natassja. It’s lovely to meet you!

What we did was ask our last ChainChatter to leave a question for the next one, which is you, and that question from Talisha Shine was Are you Team Apple or Team Android?

Right now, I’m definitely Team Apple. But I have to remain open because Blockchain keeps progressing. Polygon just announced a partnership with an Android company and so, who knows? Depending on how Blockchain Apps work, if they move to Android first I think I might hop over but currently, I am a devout Apple.

This is something I’ve been wondering about! Do Blockchain Apps need their own operating system or can they work in our App Store or our Play Store?

I think they can work in the App Store but it has to be built for it, I know that Polygon is looking to mass create a bunch of Apps, and part of the merge with Ethereum is trying to make it so that eventually you can actually run a node through your phone over a computer. So as they progress, our phone technology will have to go with us and we will see if it’s Apple or Android.

The heat is on. Is your interest in Blockchain personal, professional, or both?

Definitely both. I’m an entrepreneur so it’s hard for me to separate personal and professional! It started as personal and with time and the more and more I learned about Blockchain, the more it became professional.

What is it that you do?

So my main thing is business coaching and consulting. That’s started to shift actually a little bit into Blockchain because I am a founding member of a DAO, and I went to a bunch of Hackathons, so I’m finding I am starting to get more clients in that space. But I also run an off-grid camper motel and do real estate investing. My business partner and I are actually going to be launching an NFT project that’s associated with our vacation destination. We want to buy land in Tulum, Mexico and have our NFT holders be our third business partners.

Sounds cool! What challenges have you found to learning or doing more?

The challenge is that it’s like learning a new language. I don’t have a tech background. I’m a millennial, so I know how tech works and I've experienced the progression of technology. I remember being young enough to not have a computer in my home and now we’re talking on a computer from across the world. So I think the biggest challenge is just keeping up with the technology, the security, the safety features, how not to get scammed, and all of the different Blockchains. Different ones have different functions. What the difference is between Layer 1, and Layer 2. 

The terminology!

There’s so much terminology and it can be very overwhelming. And like anything, it moves so quickly, that you also have to continuously be learning new things because you’re going to keep hearing about projects and names and things you’ve never heard about before. That’s probably the biggest barrier to entry — the learning curve. And then keep your learning up.

What kind of resources have you relied on?

The number one is Twitter. Podcasts, I’m a fan of Bankless. And then just from being on Twitter, I’ll see a lot of other stuff come up and then you start to follow people you know and trust and dive more into their groups. 

Any other resources?

I also won a scholarship to go to ETHDenver, and that led me to find a DAO, Blu3DAO, and allies essentially to learn, earn, and play in Web3. So that community has been a really big resource for me. And then all of the people that I’ve met through Twitter, DAO work, Discord, and NFT projects. All the classic Web3 communities.

I find it quite a welcoming community overall. You find people that you don’t mind asking questions to and things like that.

Yes, the joke is that the outsiders think we’re crazy, and if you’re crazy enough to want to learn about Web3, people are pretty open to wanting to teach and mentor you in ways that you don’t see in other industries at all.

OK, you’re a consultant and you said you have a few projects going on, but how does diversity fit into any one or all of your projects?

I work predominantly with women and non-binary people in a coaching sense, I do business coaching. So the diversity-equity piece for that would be really recognizing that the more equity, like actual economic stability and resources that women and non-binary people have, the more likely they are to give back to their community, that’s a statistic, not a personal bias. My background is nonprofit. We learned a lot about how when you give micro-finance loans and mentorship to women, their communities escape poverty faster. So I’ve taken that same approach to my entrepreneurship. 

So interesting! What about your other projects?

I try and create content for free, and make myself very approachable and easy to access. Then for the NFT project that we’re launching with ASTRID PARK, part of what we’re doing there is honoring the fact that we are Canadians, we’re going to Mexico to buy land, so working a lot with not just the local community in giving back to local causes and efforts, but also making sure that we’re putting funding and resources into helping immigrants that actually want to go to Canada. 

That’s a really great initiative.

It’s just about making sure that all of my business choices and decisions are under the concept of inclusion, and community is really at the forefront of my brain. It’s thinking, How can I make this situation a win for me while also making this situation a win for the other people that should be included in my thought.

Well done. Wouldn’t it be nice if everybody did that? Any companies or individuals to watch? That you think are going places and that maybe don’t have a lot of visibility?

I want to say Polygon, but they’re in front of a lot of eyes at the moment because they’re launching a bunch of partnerships. They announced a partnership with Disney, with Stripe, with Meta — they’re going to do all of their NFTs. I know that Polygon is really interested in diversity and inclusion and creating more accessibility and equity in the space. They sponsor the DAO, and help us with stuff. 

And the smaller ones?

In terms of smaller things to watch, you never really know in this space because of how quickly things go, but my recommendation would always be to follow major hackathons, really look at what projects are winning those hackathons, and find out about their team and their funding. A lot of really popular today projects like Lens for example are very big in that space. Lens is a decentralized social media platform. Always a good one to look for. But a lot of projects actually come from a hackathon project. 

Out of everything Web3, would you say you’re more focused on NFTs? If I say NFT to some of my family or friends they are like, what? So what I’m asking is can you Explain Like I’m Five (ELI5) NFTs?

It’s an acronym for Non-Fungible Token, which obviously means nothing to someone who doesn’t exist in the crypto space. I would describe it as essentially, a receipt, that may have an image on said receipt like a piece of artwork but really an NFT is a token that just proves ownership of something. 

Because an NFT is a technology, not just a thing, you can create a smart contract which is just like a normal contract, but on this digital receipt. This lets you know that you get certain exclusive perks or rights and that as the owner of this receipt, you are allowed to sell it to someone else, and the creator automatically gets paid back royalties. 

That’s essentially what a smart contract is. It’s just a contract that lives on Blockchain technology, making it automatic and you don’t really have to do a lot or know the tech, it just exists. The NFT is the receipt factor and then depending on what NFT you own, that gives you access to certain perks or entitled to profits, but it all depends on the project. 

Next one, what do you wish you’d known or done sooner?

I wish I had just learned about it all sooner! And maybe invested sooner. Mostly because there is so much to learn and I'm an optimist, and an entrepreneur, so I see obviously a lot of potential in where blockchain technology can go. There are endless possibilities so I just wish I would have gotten into it sooner so that I would have had more time to learn more and create more projects and meet more people.

What about your prediction about the future of NFTs and Crypto/Blockchain too, do you think they're traveling at the same rate in the same direction?

I think people will start to recognize that they are three separate things. People will start to realize that NFTs are their own thing, the same way that Crypto and Blockchain are. They’re all connected, but they are different. A lot of Blockchain is actually not about money, but everyone associates it with Crypto. As we separate those concepts for people, we will see more and more adoption because people will understand how to build and create on Blockchain. 

It’s hard for people to separate when it’s the first time they’re hearing about it.

It really is the same thing as with the internet. When it was first created, there was a lot of confusion around it, the government tried to regulate it, they wanted to tax emails! We saw so much of what we are seeing right now in the Blockchain and Crypto space. As companies started to build in this space people used to think like Why would I need an email address when I have a phone? Why would I want an online store when I have a physical store?

Now we live in such a digital world that you have to have those things to get by. I believe the same will be true for Blockchain technology, it will just be a part of our everyday lives. We probably won’t call them NFTs, Crypto, or Blockchain. No one calls the internet the World Wide Web anymore! I see it going the same way. I don’t know exactly what it will look like, but I do know it’s not going anywhere. I think there’ll be mass adoption, but by that point, it won’t even be a topic worth discussing anymore. It will just be integrated into our everyday lives. 

Where do you think Blockchain companies but also companies in general should be focusing their DEI efforts?

Every protocol or Blockchain company should be figuring out what is important to them and their values, and what they’re trying to build because when we think about diversity, equity, and inclusion, it’s not like a one-size-fits-all, monolithic concept.

Especially in the Ethereum space — that’s the space I'm most engaged in — DEI is a really important factor in what people are building. The concept of public goods is really important to the overall values of Blockchain and so my recommendation for people is to focus on their values and then turn the dial up on those values. It’s not about trying to check every box because that’s impossible, and also sometimes more harmful than good. You’re not actually creating real equity or inclusion you’re just trying to look good. 

Can you think of an example? 

An example would be Celo. It’s a Layer 1 Blockchain, and they are really focusing on regen efforts, so regenerative finance or regenerative environmental projects. They are doing cool things but trying to turn the dial up on regenerative style protocols and companies. They’re focusing on their values and upping the scale on them. That would be my recommendation — stay in alignment with your protocol’s and community’s values and dial it up versus trying to stretch yourself and do everything.

So kind of niche down?

Yeah! You’ll just have more impact that way too.

When did you learn your most important lesson about diversity?

Hmmm. I guess it would have been right before I came out. I’m queer. And for so long resigned myself to the idea that I’d never come out because it just felt much easier. Part of that was because I had no representation, not just in my personal life but on television or in media. Then I remember watching a TV show and seeing this lesbian couple and how they’re going through all of the classic motions of coming out, but actually seeing how happy they were. It unlocked this idea of Oh wait! Your life could actually be happier if you were out! So yeah, I’m really diluting the moment, but it was an important moment for me in recognizing why representation is so important. 

Thanks for sharing that!

It’s important. If we can’t see ourselves in a space then we might not realize that participating is possible for us. That’s why we need diverse people, diverse experiences, and diverse voices. There are so many cool people out there who could be doing so many brilliant, impactful things, but they don’t even know that it’s possible for them. So again, it’s about giving people space to share their stories and making sure people are seen, and just sharing our experiences in general. A narrative that people have with Crytpo is that it’s not diverse, I work with a DAO where the vast majority of our members are women of color, and women and non-binary people period. So to say that there is no diversity ironically erases all the diversity that’s actually there. Do we want more? Yes, of course. But it doesn’t mean that we are not already there. 

I’m interested to hear about the DAO.

Oh, Blu3DAO. A DAO is a really great way to learn and build community in the Web3 space. They say that it will take on the role of a company in the future. I think they’re really fun, at times a little chaotic, so there’s growth that needs to occur internally, structure-wise. But it’s an experiment. Everything in Blockchain is an experiment and I think DAOs are a really beautiful experiment on governance and democracy and all of these things that are important in the larger global context. But Blu3DAO, the one that I’m a part of, I would highly recommend to anyone who is looking to learn more about Web3, especially if you’re looking to participate in hackathons, even if you have no technical experience. I came on as a project manager. 

Any other wisdom or insights that you want to share?

Then my overarching advice is everyone feels dumb when learning about Web3. It’s new, there’s so much to learn that it feels like an abyss of knowledge, and so knowing that it’s OK if you feel overwhelmed, that’s part of the process, and just move through the discomfort, you’ll find your footing and then you’ll feel confident enough to at least take the next step. For most people, it goes over their head the first 50 times they hear about it, and then just one day something clicks. Then they’re obsessed. You can definitely fall down the rabbit hole in a fun way!

I really enjoy these ChainChats. Would you leave a question for our next ChainChatter? We are making a chain of questions, you see.

OK, so the last one was Apple or Android. My question will be What would be something you would build or create or do in this world if you knew with absolute certainty it would work out?

OK, brilliant. Well thank you very much for coming on, we’ll be in touch!

Any questions at all, or areas of interest, I can keep my ears pricked and connect you. Because there’s no real way to search for things other than Twitter! It’s all old-school word-of-mouth connecting, so if you ever have a project you’re interested in learning more about I’ll be happy to listen out for you.

Thank you so much!

Yeah!