Hello, Ian! I’m Natassja from Diversity in Blockchain and as you know, this is our ChainChat series where we ask you questions about Web3, Blockchain, and diversity… Each guest leaves a question for the next guest. The question for you is: If you could focus on one problem in Web3, knowing you’d succeed, what would it be?

I think the biggest problem with Blockchain right now from a general perspective is that it’s still something that has very high barriers to entry. I wouldn’t regard myself as the technical type, so during my journey of navigation through different cryptocurrencies and how the different layers of Blockchains work, what mining entails, how nodes work etc., I’ve figured that it’s something that’s really hard to grasp for someone who is not very into the tech industry. The App that we’re building right now really democratizes blockchain for someone who doesn’t understand the tech end of it. I feel it’s hard to get a grasp of how blockchain works unless you’re deeply involved. It would be nice if we could produce service layer apps that the user can interact with directly, where the users can experience the technology and all the benefits, without having to understand how everything works. That’s where we’re trying to bridge that gap in the form of a DApp. 

It’s funny, the more I’ve been looking and learning I’ve come to the same conclusion that what you need now is some sample Apps or DApps where people can get involved and see the end use. I’m completely on board with what you’re saying. Right, so, Ian, tell me about your interest in Web3 and when did you get into it?

I heard about Bitcoin, I would say that was my first encounter probably back six or seven years ago. At that time, I think the barriers to entry were even higher so although I had heard about Blockchain and crypto I didn’t have a chance to get into it. I think it wasn’t until one or two years ago, especially during Covid, when I saw this burst of NFTs, I think that’s where things really started. You know, people were buying Bored Apes for crazy prices back then. That’s where I got into the scene. Personally, especially during Covid again, I’ve been really focused on personal health because I was in Australia back then and locked inside my house with my gym and not much else to do. I was just practicing living a healthy life and I feel it benefited me. At the same time, I was getting more into Blockchain, right, so I was thinking How can I put the two things together? Then I wanted to learn more, as I viewed Blockchain as the medium rather than a means to an end, so I’ve been looking at tokenomics and digital assets combined with gamification and an incentive system for people to live a healthy life.

I might ask you a bit more about the mechanics of that! I have an interest in gamification as it was part of my Master’s thesis. What are you trying to achieve and what’s your project?

My project is simple. It’s turning healthy living into a fun, multiplayer, social game. I’ve seen so many people that say they want to live a healthy life, some are ambitious, some find it easier to achieve, but most people fail to follow through. I would say because there’s a lack of immediate reward. If you want to go shopping, you spend that money, and get what you want. You immediately get that satisfaction. Whereas it’s not the same for healthy living. Just because you eat healthily for a day, you’re not going to see that benefit straight away. If it was more apparent it might be easier for someone to pursue, because you notice every day you have definite progress. When you don’t see progress, you’re more likely to give up. Gamification and token distribution is that every time you do something that’s health-related, there’s an incentive, like a certain amount of a token. I would say that it’s valuable because, there’s a lot of — ‘X’ to earn, whether that be play-to-earn, invest-to-earn, it’s popular. I used to think that was the solution. But after being in this industry for a while, I realize it’s not sustainable. Is there any successful company today giving you money to acquire more users? I don’t think that brings any value at all. Whereas the value itself should come from really helping people to have a healthier life. I’m using tokens, not as a financial instrument, but there could be incentives, but I’m using the token to create that dopamine every time they do something and to make it easier to persevere. That’s the route I’m taking. 

Again, as I’m learning more too, I’m realizing that tokenomics is a similar concept to the insignias you might get learning a language on an App like Duolingo, for example. You get an insignia for passing levels and I think that it’s enough incentive for people to want to continue and compete. I guess in your project the Web3 or Blockchain part comes in with the tokenomics. Is that what’s different about what you can do with PowerVerse in Web3 as opposed to Web2?

To be honest it could be done either way. It’s just there are a lot of benefits with the Web3 space because of digital assets. How a token ecosystem works is that you earn tokens from doing health-related activities. Sleeping more than six hours, going to healthy restaurants… You earn the coin or the token. After, the coin or the token — I talked about the gamification element — you’re going to be using these coins to open mystery boxes, which lead to all sorts of digital assets. It’s not exactly an NFT because the unit is a lot smaller, an NFT could be an avatar with a series of decorations, a hat, or sunglasses, etc., whereas our digital asset takes the form of a single accessory. A t-shirt, a hoody, or whatever. 

The whole gamification part works to create a marketplace and an ecosystem where people can track their digital provenance and have full ownership of everything they have. They can use it with intellectual property rights. And I think the Web3 thing is giving people the power. I wouldn’t say there would be a drastic difference if everything was done in Web2, it’s just there’s no harm in doing it in Web3, giving people the autonomy that they deserve. 

If you open a super rare item from one of the mystery boxes, you could sell it and exchange your coins for some kind of USDC/USDT that just goes to another platform if I want to. It’s about giving people more choices and how they choose to leverage it is up to them. How we are going to start it is partially from Web2 for testing purposes, with tokenomics, and then transition to Web3 when we airdrop. It’s giving people that experience of Oh, these are our tokens. I could send them to my friends as a gift. Giving people the power. Your selling point is never blockchain, your selling point is the value you’re trying to deliver. That’s healthy living, so as long as we do that right, the goal has been accomplished.

Yeah and I suppose as Web3 develops, more opportunities will become available to see what it is you can do differently. I was thinking about your mystery boxes, so if someone sleeps well they can earn you know, a pillow, or if they go and play football they can earn a golden football or something? I like the idea. How is PowerVerse tackling the issue of diversity?

Can you be more specific?

Looking at your founding group, I don’t know if it’s just you or if you have a team, what is the diversity ratio like, or, how do you intend to make this product appeal to people of diverse audiences? One or the other. 

I think in terms of the core team so far it’s pretty diverse. In terms of gender and race, we are quite diverse. How I tackle diversity is actually counterintuitive. I choose to not focus on diversity in itself because I feel like sometimes when you forcefully focus on diversity it can backfire in a sense that you’re enforcing it. Personally, when I resolve problems, I usually think about them from a mission point of view. As long as the person is like-minded, driven, and understands where we’re heading together, it really doesn’t matter what sort of background they come from. My mindset is that if you think beyond the person, that really leads to diversity. Focusing on something like My gender ratio is not good, I’m going to limit everyone else from this opportunity just to fix that solves a problem on the surface, it makes the statistics look good. But it doesn’t really solve the true issue in the end which is about making decisions based freely away those criteria. It’s a different way to tackle it, and I think it’s a way you get a team that’s really driven and we’re all on the same page. Obviously, it’s about your practices as well. 

What has been your greatest resource for learning more and being able to move forward?

This is still a pretty new industry. So there’s not a systematic way for you to learn about things. The internet is a great resource. Watching a lot of videos I’d say.

YouTube? You’re one of mine.

Yeah, YouTube! It depends on what type of content you’re looking for. I feel like the VCs have some really good stuff, for example the a16z cryptoschool is a really great way for people to get started. I highly recommend that series. It’s probably like 10-14 of hours of content and after you watch that you have a pretty good understanding of how the fundamentals work. And then in terms of startups, I’ve been looking at the Y Combinator video series like how you sort out your funding, how to research, and things like that. A combination of these two. I’ve been open to processing information. Twitter is definitely great. I didn’t use Twitter a lot, but recently I’ve realized as you know, the Web3 space is heavily involved in Twitter. A lot of people tweet useful stuff that really enlightens you. The algorithms these days are really good. Once you show the algorithm what you’re into, it’s going to start recommending you all sorts of videos and you watch the ones that you feel are the most beneficial to you. 

All of my Instagram ads at the moment. 

Yeah, and you can always go old school and find a book. It’s not the most time-effective way but it’s always good to read.

On the flip side, what challenges have you faced?

Challenge-wise, I would say breaking into the industry. I wouldn’t say I’m really well-integrated into the ecosystem, but in a sense, that’s a blessing in disguise. How I envisage Blockchain is fairly different from what most people think of. When they think about a Blockchain project, they think about how to target crypto-natives, how do I learn the jargon, how do I get into this niche? Because at the end of the day, Blockchain is still a niche. It’s a big industry with a lot of future potential, but right now it’s constrained to a small group of people. In comparison, if you ask people about social media, everyone understands. If you ask about Blockchain, it’s still small. Who’s to say they really understand it? I’ve been focusing on a generalist perspective like, how do I push this thing out to the people who are not already into Blockchain? I’m not going into the specifics about the infrastructure or storage system, but we need mass adoption and integration and my being at the fringe gives me a fresh perspective to build my own thought process about how I think it should go. If I’m surrounded by people with a solid perspective, it’s more difficult to develop my own independent perspective. And that’s important for innovation. 

And diversity I think. If we wait until the tech experts have it exactly how they want then it’s going to be shaped in a certain way. Whereas if we come along with Can you imagine this? And then the building is done around those ideas, that innovation and that diversity of ideas can come through. I think we’ll see different results.

How do you explain Web3 to your friends and family that aren’t in “The Circle”?

If I was to explain Web3 I’d say the first keyword is open source. Everything is visible and transparent. You know what’s going on. You can see the codes, the whitepapers, you understand to its core what it’s about. That’s great. Number two, I would say that it’s a lot about tokens. Creating an economy within an economy. You can call that a metaverse or whatever. It’s about forming a closed loop where there are people that create a token and people that burn or use it. You can’t talk about Web3 without talking about tokens or currencies. Number three I’d say is democratization, or giving users the power. If we talk about traditional companies, users don’t really have much of a say. If Facebook suddenly tells me they’re changing their privacy settings or agreements, I can’t really object and I don’t benefit. The one good thing about Web3 is that it rewards people for being early believers. If I witness the growth of a product and I join in on the first 100 I should get some sort of recognition at least. I feel like Web3 does that. Web3 is giving power back to the people and building a system that’s sustainable where merchants can profit but users can also have more of a say.

Good answer. What predictions do you have for the way everything is… Well, you have answered that really. Let me give you another one. What do you wish you had known sooner?

Sure. For anyone who thinks about making money or anything, you’ll wake up and see some company raised a couple hundred million, and all these crazy acquisitions. You see all the figures and you think it’s easy. It’s the future if you want to be financially independent. But it’s a bias in the sense of these people are the market leaders, honestly most of the successes you see, there are another hundred behind them that are unable to get funding, it’s just not as optimistic as people think. It’s an insider circle. You really have to get in. These few companies bounce off each other and grow together. Almost like an exclusive access club. It’s not as easy for someone who isn’t in there. The only exception I’d say is infrastructure, if you have really good coding skills, you can build great protocol and get funding. But other than that, money isn’t falling in. It seems nice, there are a lot of options, but these are just ones that you see because they’re one in a million. It’s like any other industry, it takes a lot of work.

That community aspect comes back again, someone can have the idea, another has the tech skill, and another the capital. It takes a few groups to come together to make something happen. Plus, the hard work obviously. One more before I ask you to leave a question for the next guest. Do you have any other insights or things you want to share whether about your project or your experience?

I think the best way for people to begin is to be on the consumer side. Buy some crypto, buy some NFTs, and understand how everything works from that end but don’t spend too much money because you’re probably going to lose some of it. It’s a good learning experience. I think if anyone is interested they should get started like that and see if it’s something for them. I don’t think Blockchain is for everyone and I think it’s overhyped at the moment. People should touch on it and make their own perspective. Don’t be blinded by what other people say.

And then to finish, leave a question for our next guest! It doesn’t have to be remotely Blockchain related, it can be! Just to break the ice on the next ChainChat.

A problematic Web3 success. A company, an idea, a model. 

Something that could be problematic or one that they’ve seen?

One that is successful, but they would see as problematic. 

Got it. It’s been great to speak to you!